Welcome, Добро Пожаловать, Pari Egak!!!

What is Hamshen? Why this forum exists?
Что такое Амшен? Для чего существует форум?
Hamshen''e inch pona? As forume inchi homar a? Vum deia?
Ի՞նչ է Համշենը: Ինչո՞ւ է ստեղծվել այս ֆորումը։

Postby Ariane » 24 Mar 2007, 02:08

Parev zsez, inchbes ek,
:D Franssatsi'em ama Hay'em, but I must be hamshen'hay, cause I speak like u ! tsezi bes gue rhossim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I wasn't know. :shock:
When I speak with "my" armenians words on armenian forum, they ask me to speak proper armenian, I speak my granparents armenian's, that's what they've taught me. It's like a shame to speak as I do :? , sorry for the "purist", I speak as I know, and I see we are many to do it ! :) I do more understand your words than "their" armenian words.
But, I want to be called " Armenian" too, cause my family use to tell we are armenian, and as each of us has been suffer enough during the genocide for being Armenian, so...
Ariane
 
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Postby Sako Pasha » 24 Mar 2007, 06:34

Avetik,I would say both.I like the use of the Pontic bagpipe in the music and just the way the whole thing is put together.Only two Western Armenian Dialects survived after the Genocide time the Istanbul one and the one currently spoken in Anjar Lebanon which is from Musa Dagh.So it is interesting hearing another in a sense dialect.I will ask my other question in the music forum so I can continue to learn and understand this dialect.
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Postby avetik » 24 Mar 2007, 16:05

Ariane wrote:Parev zsez, inchbes ek,
:D Franssatsi'em ama Hay'em, but I must be hamshen'hay, cause I speak like u ! tsezi bes gue rhossim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I wasn't know. :shock:
When I speak with "my" armenians words on armenian forum, they ask me to speak proper armenian, I speak my granparents armenian's, that's what they've taught me. It's like a shame to speak as I do :? , sorry for the "purist", I speak as I know, and I see we are many to do it ! :) I do more understand your words than "their" armenian words.
But, I want to be called " Armenian" too, cause my family use to tell we are armenian, and as each of us has been suffer enough during the genocide for being Armenian, so...


Ariane jan, pari egadzis astegh,
I was always wondering about how lives of those Hamshentsi Armenians who fled to Europe, Mid. East, America turned out to be. In south Russia they settled in villages in an environment very similar to Pontic mountains and were engaged in the same kind of trade (tobacco, tea, corn etc.) Staying together allowed us to preserve the dialect. But what about migrants like your ancestors, which I presume come from Pontus? Were they able to keep the dialect or did it disolve in West Armenian? Please tell us more, I am anxious to hear those stories!.

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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Postby avetik » 24 Mar 2007, 16:09

Sako Pasha wrote:Avetik,I would say both.I like the use of the Pontic bagpipe in the music and just the way the whole thing is put together.Only two Western Armenian Dialects survived after the Genocide time the Istanbul one and the one currently spoken in Anjar Lebanon which is from Musa Dagh.So it is interesting hearing another in a sense dialect.I will ask my other question in the music forum so I can continue to learn and understand this dialect.


Sako jan, our dialect is considered to be relatively closer to West Armenian, although, I have to say, either West or East Armenian speakers have hard time understanding our speech :P

I heard about Suedio dialect (Anjar, Musa Dagh, Hatay(?)) and I it is the hardest dialect to grasp, IMHO :) They also use sound "a" as in "apple" in some words, like we do. Maybe there are other similarities... It would be great to compare the music styles...

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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avetik
 
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Postby Sako Pasha » 25 Mar 2007, 01:55

They mix like Kurdish or something like that in there dialect.They use words at times that you can't even imagine.They use something like the davul or the actual davul.Here is an article and a picture of it from wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davul
Sako Pasha
 
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Postby Ariane » 26 Mar 2007, 10:18

Ariane wrote:Parev zsez, inchbes ek,
:D Franssatsi'em ama Hay'em, but I must be hamshen'hay, cause I speak like u ! tsezi bes gue rhossim !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and I wasn't know. :shock:
When I speak with "my" armenians words on armenian forum, they ask me to speak proper armenian, I speak my granparents armenian's, that's what they've taught me. It's like a shame to speak as I do :? , sorry for the "purist", I speak as I know, and I see we are many to do it ! :) I do more understand your words than "their" armenian words.
But, I want to be called " Armenian" too, cause my family use to tell we are armenian, and as each of us has been suffer enough during the genocide for being Armenian, so...


after an answer to my question, I've understood that I definitely wasn't Hamshen'hay, but we use the same vocabulary, cause we were living together. It was really important for me to know... thank u Avedik :idea: :idea:
look at my eyes and tell me I'm not armenian...
Ariane
 
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Location: france

Postby angela » 26 Mar 2007, 10:40

I live in USA for a while and I heard a few times lebanese armenian talk . I was surprised because my father's dialect is very similar to their's. Most residents of his village wich is called Burj speak this kind of armenian. It is quite different from trabizonci or ordieci dialect. This village is located in Sukhumi, Abkhazia. I think very first residents there were somewhere from those locations you mentioned.
" Better be wise by misfortunes of others than by your own "
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Postby avetik » 26 Mar 2007, 17:12

angela wrote: I was surprised because my father's dialect is very similar to their's. Most residents of his village wich is called Burj speak this kind of armenian.


Do you mean Boruj Hamoud? I thought this is an Armenian quartal in Beirut, am I wrong? So people who would live there would be not Hamshetsi's, but Lebanese Armenians which speak in Western Armenian (arevmta-hayeren) dialect. Our dialect (known as hamshena-hayeren, homshetsma, hemshince or, funny enough, "miy lizun") is grammatically very close to Western Armenian, but not the same, of course. People would probably understand each other when they speak, specially those who were educated in the Armenian school, however, it is hard to compare these dialects. From what I understand, hamshenahayeren was developed in the seclusion, in Pontic Mountains near Black Sea over a period of 800 years.

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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avetik
 
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Postby angela » 26 Mar 2007, 20:57

Burdj or Burge- is village in Sukhumy. I thought maybe first residents of that place came from Mousa Dagh otherwise i can't explain why their talk is so different from ours which is generally spoken by most armenian in abkhazia and south russia. For example: Listen=mdik ere, while we say lse. Roots of many words are the same, but endings are different.
" Better be wise by misfortunes of others than by your own "
angela
 
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Location: Los Angeles

Postby avetik » 26 Mar 2007, 22:30

angela wrote:Burdj or Burge- is village in Sukhumy. I thought maybe first residents of that place came from Mousa Dagh otherwise i can't explain why their talk is so different from ours which is generally spoken by most armenian in abkhazia and south russia. For example: Listen=mdik ere, while we say lse. Roots of many words are the same, but endings are different.


Angela, this is very very interesting new information... I've been to Sukhumi many times, but most of the Armenians I saw there were from Caniktsi/Orduetsi families. Can you tell more about that village?..

As far as their origin from Musa Dagh, I doubt it: you can check out a website where they have examples of their speech. From what I know it is called "Suedio dialect". http://www.mousaler.com/dialect

I think people in Bourj might be from Artvin region... Or perhaps Trabzontsi?..

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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avetik
 
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Postby angela » 27 Mar 2007, 09:11

It is shame to admit, but I don't read armenian... :( (but I am working on this problem... ) So I wasn't able to check the site you gave me Avetik...Well, my grandfather's family was from Trabzon , I don't know what about the rest of families there, but it is not trabzon dialect they use . I don't speak like them, but I can wright just a few expression like : Yes bidi ertam naem= I will go to see, vur gertaser?= where are you going? Inchu vaziser= why are you runing?,adika barap pane=this is rubbish, Atpes glla mi? = Will that work? I heard on weekedns western armenian priest having his speach and I was suprised how much his talk reminded me my dad's dialect... Hope my dad will come to visit us this year and I will ask him some more questions.
" Better be wise by misfortunes of others than by your own "
angela
 
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Location: Los Angeles

Postby avetik » 27 Mar 2007, 17:59

Angela, it sounds like it is a plain Western Armenian, not Hamshen dialect.
Wow!.. I never knew about Western Armenians in Abkhazia... Although, I think I got an article (some years ago) about one man's story about escape from Turkey during 1915 genocide from Yomura village. The introduction to this article said that it was translated into Russian from Western Armenian, but I thought they meant from Hamshen dialect. So, this may be the same dialect as yours.

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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Postby Ruben Hemşinli » 28 Mar 2007, 20:51

Привет дорогие земляки ! Рад видеть всех вас вместе. Кого благодарить за форум ?
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Postby Hack » 28 Mar 2007, 20:58

Добро пожаловать, Рубен

А кого ты имеешь в виду под словом "земляки"? :)
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Postby Ruben Hemşinli » 28 Mar 2007, 21:28

Hack wrote:Добро пожаловать, Рубен

А кого ты имеешь в виду под словом "земляки"? :)


Сначала позволь поблагодарить тебя за ссылку, Hack джан :)

А под словом земляки , я подразумеваю в первую очередь всех неравнодушных к судьбе Амшена.
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