A Question for Hemshenis.

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Hamshetsik inch millet in?
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Postby el-hemşini » 09 Aug 2007, 16:12

el-hemşini
 

Postby princemishkin » 09 Aug 2007, 16:27

Evet buydu galiba. Fakat hafızam beni yanıltmış. Ben Hemşinliler özerklik için başvurmuş diye hatırlıyordum. ama yazıda ermeniler deniyor. Demek birlikte hareket ediyorlarmış, yanılmışım.

Dear Avetik, reading the article El Hemşini sent, I saw that I was wrong. It was not the Hemshinians who applied for autonomy but them and other Armenians together. I'm sorry for my bad mamory.
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Postby el-hemşini » 09 Aug 2007, 16:31

Sanırım "Hemşinli" ile "Hemşinli Ermeni" (veya Hemşin Ermenisi) arasındaki farklılık yalnızca Türkiye'ye özgü.
el-hemşini
 

Postby Hayrik » 09 Aug 2007, 16:41

merhaba, oraya girmedim okumicam, ama shunu anlamak isterim.
Eger Acaristanin dogusunda Javaxeti bolgesiyse dogru ozerklik istemishler. Abxazia Osetia gibi ayrilmak degil, Acaria gibi dil kultur korumak icin.
Ama Javaxetide Hamshenli Armeni yashamiyor. Hamshenli armeni Abxaziada ve belki de Acarianin bir kac koyunde.
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Postby princemishkin » 09 Aug 2007, 17:19

Ben yalnızca kendimi nasıl gördüğümü yazdım. Büyük ailem içinde kendini ermeni kabul eden de var, faşist olacak kadar kendini öz be öz Türk sayanlar da var. Ortak noktamız Hemşinlilik. Ben şehirde doğmuş, kendini Türk bilerek büyümüş ve halen şehirde yaşamakta olan bir Hemşinli olarak kendimi Türk kültürü içinde bir alt gruba ait hissediyorum. Ama Hemşin'de doğup büyüyenlerin de benim gibi hissettiğini sanıyorum. Anadili Türkçe olan birinin başka türlü hissetmesi pek mümkün gelmiyor bana. Bu ermeni aslını inkar değildir, yalnızca Osmanlı'nın asimilasyon politikasında başarılı olduğunu gösterir (Rus sınırında hıristiyan istemiyordu). Okuduk, öğrendik, ailelerimize söyleyince kimi büyüklerimiz "doğru" dedi, kimi inkar etti. Ama insan yetişkinliğinde bir şey öğrendiği zaman kimliği değişmiyor, başka türlü hissetmeye başlamıyor.
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Postby avetik » 09 Aug 2007, 17:43

princemishkin wrote:Dear Avetik, reading the article El Hemşini sent, I saw that I was wrong. It was not the Hemshinians who applied for autonomy but them and other Armenians together. I'm sorry for my bad mamory.


Dear princemishkin, I need to read the article first in order to reply specifically. But thanks for your interest in this important issue.

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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Postby avetik » 09 Aug 2007, 17:56

Trips to the provinces always turn up a surprise. High in the rain forest of the Black Sea coast can be seen the lovely faces of the girls of the Hemsin valley. They chatter away in a dialect that can only descend from Armenian, although their people found it advantageous to become staunch Muslims to escape the ethnic massacres of the First World War. A similar surprise was the discovery in the 1980s that one cabinet minister spoke fluent Greek. His family came from a mountain village that had once been part of the independent Greek kingdom of Trebizond but whose descendants had also converted to Islam.


Source text is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/p/pope-turkey.html

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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Postby princemishkin » 09 Aug 2007, 18:55

Dear Avetik, that is not true. I have read in books and articles written by armenian writers that we were converted by the Ottomans 200 years ago who did not want a christian population behind the Russian border. You are the ones who refused, and we are the ones who accepted.
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Postby avetik » 09 Aug 2007, 19:16

Dear princemishkin, I have a gut feeling that this discussion may lead us away into a historico-political realm. We are trying to keep this forum as non-political as possible.

So... let's see.. (clearing throat)
Ahm-hm...

Eeeey-hey-hey...
You may say, I'm a dreamer,
But I'm not the only one...

Thanks for your understanding! :)

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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Postby Hayrik » 09 Aug 2007, 19:59

8)
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Postby princemishkin » 12 Aug 2007, 13:48

Oro Avetik, nice to see a comrade who can imagine like me. The important thing is we the hemshinians of the world have come together for the first time. So let's keep on with these brotherly meetings. See you
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Postby hagop » 13 Aug 2007, 06:44

Hello all,

Another way to avoid political or partizan interpretations is to look at the result of the conversion process.

First, the conversion is not a single event but a process that took over 200 years. It looks like it was not just a choice of "conversion or else" ultimatum presented to Armenians by the Ottomans at one time. Back then, the Armenians were the last group in the Black Sea area remaining almost completely Christian. Obviously, they must have known that it was their turn now and they had to do something about it. So, they had to make hard choices among different options, for example to become honest converts, or to convert in name only (some people having a dual religion or crypto-Christianity as was reported 150-200 years ago) in the hope that some day they can convert back or to risk their lives against the pressure and hope to move elsewhere. It looks like all three of these choices were made by parts of the community.

Another thing that we can all agree is the traumatic effect of this process on the Hamshen community as a whole. All of these options were difficult choices. Some lives were lost. 30-40% of the community was forced to move and relatives had to separate from each other forever. The language use started to decline and the cultural items began to disappear.

I think looking at the balance sheet is a better way than saying "you did this, we did that" or trying to justify who did what. It looks like the Armenians tried different methods and all three options had a heavy price to pay.
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Postby artem » 13 Aug 2007, 08:20

Hello all,
hagop wrote:So, they had to make hard choices among different options, for example to become honest converts, or to convert in name only (some people having a dual religion or crypto-Christianity as was reported 150-200 years ago) in the hope that some day they can convert back or to risk their lives against the pressure and hope to move elsewhere. It looks like all three of these choices were made by parts of the community.

avetik found interesting video about this "Hidden Armenians in Turkey" (French Video-Repoort in English)
Topic on this forum
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Postby avetik » 13 Aug 2007, 16:16

princemishkin wrote:Oro Avetik, nice to see a comrade who can imagine like me. The important thing is we the hemshinians of the world have come together for the first time. So let's keep on with these brotherly meetings. See you


You have said it best, my brother! :)

astegh badmutine hin
xarnevadza nerin hed,
kidista miy baberun azbarininq himi menq,
azbarininq menq... (c) Hamsheni Azbar
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avetik
 
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Postby mizzLebanese » 28 Aug 2007, 02:38

princemishkin wrote:Well, you are right, there seems to be a contradiction there but I can explain. It has been a long time since we were "convinced" to convert. The western Hemshinian's mothertongue is Turkish. We don't speak Armenian. Learning your origins doesn't change your present identity. we feel more like Turkish than Armenian or Laz. But we know who we are. That's why we prefer to say we are Hemshinian.

You, ofcourse would know better about the Hemshinians in Russia. I just wrote what I read in a report. Plus, please, it's not "my" asam.

I am so glad to see the Hemshinians of the world coming together in this forum.


Thank you for the info brother :)
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