Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

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Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 16 Jun 2008, 06:34

Hi all.
I'm very glad to find this forums of Hamshen.
Thank you all for such interesting information about this uniqal "nation".
Why "nation" ?- I used to call hamshens(mostly of Turkey's hamshen or Khemshils of Russia and Middle Asia) a seperate nation with armenian roots,
like ukrainans and russian -as the branch of one nation.
Unfortunaly in Armenia ,people know very few(I'll say average armenian do not know anything about hamshens),the part who know something ,sometime unfortulay consider Them turkozied armenians.My opinion is not that.I consider hamshens a separate nation with islamik fate and armenian origin.
I think the main goal of Us(people who are interesting of raising hamsheni culture and self-consciousness) will be introduction armenians to hamshens and hamshens to armenians.
I actualy don't care about the religion,I care about language and identity.
I see it's very beatiful language,very uniqal music,I've seen some pitures of hamshenis and begin love you more and more.
The main purpose of Us today will be recognizing of hamshens as a separate nation of armenian branch.
I'll be grateful if you share your opinion and idea about this question.
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 16 Jun 2008, 08:16

Hayasa wrote:Hi all.
I'm very glad to find this forums of Hamshen.
Thank you all for such interesting information about this uniqal "nation".
Why "nation" ?- I used to call hamshens(mostly of Turkey's hamshen or Khemshils of Russia and Middle Asia) a seperate nation with armenian roots,
like ukrainans and russian -as the branch of one nation.
Unfortunaly in Armenia ,people know very few(I'll say average armenian do not know anything about hamshens),the part who know something ,sometime unfortulay consider Them turkozied armenians.My opinion is not that.I consider hamshens a separate nation with islamik fate and armenian origin.
I think the main goal of Us(people who are interesting of raising hamsheni culture and self-consciousness) will be introduction armenians to hamshens and hamshens to armenians.
I actualy don't care about the religion,I care about language and identity.
I see it's very beatiful language,very uniqal music,I've seen some pitures of hamshenis and begin love you more and more.
The main purpose of Us today will be recognizing of hamshens as a separate nation of armenian branch.
I'll be grateful if you share your opinion and idea about this question.


a foot note.
we speak only Turkish. I mean, west Hemshin people.
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 16 Jun 2008, 08:32

Where the west Hemshins live.
I know very few about this part of Hamshins.
Are there any similiarites between 2 part of hamshin ,I mean in language and custom.
Are west Hemshins aware of their origin?
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 16 Jun 2008, 10:13

Hayasa wrote:Where the west Hemshins live.
I know very few about this part of Hamshins.
Are there any similiarites between 2 part of hamshin ,I mean in language and custom.
Are west Hemshins aware of their origin?


i can say a lot of things about this topic, but i am sorry, my english is not enough.

some of them are aware, some of them are not :wink:


You can read these articles
http://www.uwm.edu/~vaux/hamshen.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamshenis
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 19 Jun 2008, 09:06

Mavrat have you any sources regarding western hamsheni language vocabulary.
I want to see how much it differs from armenian(including our dialects) and how is similiar to turkish.
The fiew word I could find in w.Hamsheni dialect , exists in other armenian dialects as well.

And also in a song "Gelini" -I've not understood any word -is that song in w. hamsheni?
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 19 Jun 2008, 10:13

Hayasa wrote:Mavrat have you any sources regarding western hamsheni language vocabulary.
I want to see how much it differs from armenian(including our dialects) and how is similiar to turkish.
The fiew word I could find in w.Hamsheni dialect , exists in other armenian dialects as well.

And also in a song "Gelini" -I've not understood any word -is that song in w. hamsheni?


It maybe helps you.
GÜNAY, Turgut (1978), Rize İli Ağızları (İnceleme-Metinler-Sözlük), Ankara: Kültür Bakanlığı Yayınları.

i don't know anything about "Gelini" :roll:
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 19 Jun 2008, 12:30

The song "gelini" I've downloaded from this site,but could not understand any word.
But in other song "Nenni Nenni" (which melody seemed like to "Gelini") ,some words and phrase was understandable form me.
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Postby MAFRAT » 19 Jun 2008, 13:49

book.jpg
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 19 Jun 2008, 13:55

KARACA, İbrahim (2006), Hemsin-Tarih Dil Gelenek ve Gorenekler, İstanbul:Çivi Yazıları


this link is working....

http://d3240682.temp90.hostica.com/Hems ... Karaca.pdf

karaca.jpg
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 19 Jun 2008, 14:01

Hayasa wrote:The song "gelini" I've downloaded from this site,but could not understand any word.
But in other song "Nenni Nenni" (which melody seemed like to "Gelini") ,some words and phrase was understandable form me.


maybe somebody wants to translate it for you.
i think, i can't. i'm sorry.
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 19 Jun 2008, 14:18

MAFRAT wrote:maybe somebody wants to translate it for you.
i think, i can't. i'm sorry.


Thank you Mafrat for this link.
Is this book about west hamshenis or about all?
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 19 Jun 2008, 14:29

Hayasa wrote:
MAFRAT wrote:.


Thank you Mafrat for this link.
Is this book about west hamshenis or about all?


about Haçapit (Khaçapit) or Subaşı Village :wink: from West Hemşin
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 20 Jun 2008, 10:21

Hayasa wrote:The song "gelini" I've downloaded from this site,but could not understand any word.
But in other song "Nenni Nenni" (which melody seemed like to "Gelini") ,some words and phrase was understandable form me.



i'm writing the lyrics.
GELİNİ
Gelini Gelini:
Bu evin tavani yok
Gelini aman aman
Yıldızlar göreniyor
Maşallah enişteye
Ne güzel göreniyor

Asma başuni asma
Yureğumuzi yakma
Bunlar biraz derindur
Bunlara kulak asma

Çağatsknivar kalesku
Kuim, lazut vaantskuş
Ka kezi gesmat ça ta
Cermag laçag vaatskuş

Enişte enişte:

Pelafin vaan yağe
İnç elluşe balli ça
Harsez piyag temsketsag
Momnu babe balli ça

Enişte boyun uzun
Değersin yapraklara
Gelini boyun uzun
Değersin yapraklara
Bu gelin kurban olsun
Bastuğun yapraklara
Enişte kurban olsun
Bastuğun topraklara


GELİNİ
Değirmene yürürsün
Darı, mısır öğütmeye
Sana kısmet değil mi
Beyaz yemeni örtmek

Pilavın üstünde yağ
Ne olduğu belli değil
Gelini getirdik kapınıza
Kaynana-babası belli değil
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Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby Hayasa » 20 Jun 2008, 14:04

Thanks for lirics :)
Is this song in turkish or in western hamsheni?

As I guess only this topic is in еast hamsheni is :

Çağatsknivar kalesku
Kuim, lazut vaantskuş
Ka kezi gesmat ça ta
Cermag laçag vaatskuş

Enişte enişte:

Pelafin vaan yağe
İnç elluşe balli ça
Harsez piyag temsketsag
Momnu babe balli ça
User avatar
Hayasa
 
Posts: 27
Joined: 13 Jun 2008, 06:12
Location: Հայք,Հայաստան Էջմիածին

Re: Who are Hamshens for Us(armeinans).

Postby MAFRAT » 20 Jun 2008, 14:40

Hayasa wrote:Thanks for lirics :)
Is this song in turkish or in western hamsheni?

As I guess only this topic is in еast hamsheni is :

Çağatsknivar kalesku
Kuim, lazut vaantskuş
Ka kezi gesmat ça ta
Cermag laçag vaatskuş

Enişte enişte:

Pelafin vaan yağe
İnç elluşe balli ça
Harsez piyag temsketsag
Momnu babe balli ça


both Turkish and Hamsheni. i guess.
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